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Surprised that routes can be verified by 3 x 2-star routes!

Daisy Cairns

I realised today that a 2 star review makes the snail on the Settlement dashboard creep forward just as long as it doesn't have a flag. Has 2 stars always counted as a positive review? Oh dear. My system was 1 = deeply flawed unusable route, 2 = unusable route that could or will be redeemed or maybe was just unusable for me on that particular day, 3 to 5 were all positive and the only ones I thought could contribute to snails. 

If I was wrong I'd really like to check my 2 stars and fix if necessary, but clicking through them to check what you scored gets to be quite a chore as the reviews mount up. Could I see a list of my own star ratings please? There are stars on the "My Reviews" waylist page but it definitely shows the average to date, not mine. I've never been clear how stars and flags interact for verification purposes either, do flags trump positive reviews? E.g. could three x 5-star reviews that each have a safety flag still get a snail? It'd give me peace of mind if someone would clarify that too please.

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Comments

11 comments

Date Votes
  • Hugh Hudson

    I thought the most important criterion was how you answered the "Would you recommend this route" question. People do all sorts of idiosyncratic things with star ratings - I agree that it is weird to say yes and give one or two stars in the same review, but I have also seen at least one five star review with a No flag!

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  • Daisy Cairns

    I've seen a few idiosyncracies too, and of course platonic objectivity is impossible. But readers and reviewers could both be guided to make contributions more consistent. And if a one star review contributes to a verified route which "has 3 positive reviews" surely that is misleading. I can't think of another online review site, opinion poll, etc which would do include 1/5 or 2/5 as positive. 

    I can think of half a dozen ways to tweak the site and help with this just off the top of my head. The site is still in beta so why settle for a misleading system? 

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  • Yorkie Christine

    You make a good point Daisy!  I hadn't thought of it.  Near to me in York for example we have a fully verified 4-star route that is nonetheless flagged for access.  It seems to me that in the current system a “positive review” counts as any review that doesn't have a flag next to it.  So yes, I believe flags trump reviews.  

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  • Cristie Moore

    Hello all,

    Thank you so much for your comments and suggestions.

    At the moment and in Christine's words flags do trump reviews in relation to whether or not a route is recommended to be part of the network.  So, a one or two star review can contribute to verification and a five star review with a maybe or no flag doesn't.

    We take all your suggestions on board and I know that the team are looking at possible changes to the star system.

    Daisy, please do update any of your stars that you would wish to.  If they are one or two star because you wouldn't recommend them based on safety, access or poorly drawn then please add a flag.  What you said around subjectivity is absolutely right and that's where the collective community comes in and the more reviews the more reliable the star rating becomes.

    Best wishes,
    Cristie

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  • Daisy Cairns
    Edited

    Thanks Cristie (Christine and Hugh too)

    So to recap, for my own sake, any review will count towards verification as long as Yes is chosen on the “Would you recommend this route…” part of the 'add a review' page, i.e. if there is no flag. And the star rating chosen at the top of the review page will not affect the verification status whether it is 1/5 or 5/5.  

    If the Slow Ways promo material stopped using the phrase “has 3 positive reviews” but said something like “has 3 recommendations” then I'd feel less uneasy about it as at least the language would be consistent across the site, if still problematice for unpleasant routes that are not actually unsafe, etc. 

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  • Cristie Moore

    Thanks Daisy.  Yes your recap is how things currently work.  I know that we're looking at the stars based on the feedback that you and others have given.  

    I'll also share your wording suggestion too.  I'm thinking that recommendation still suggests it's positive.  Maybe "at least 3 people have given it a yes to be part of the network".  A bit too wordy, possibly.  Something to ponder.

    Best wishes,
    Cristie

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  • Daisy Cairns

    I had the same thoughts. Maybe tweak the No recommendation drop down instead? A fourth option, so you can not-recommend without actually flagging. Like ‘Route is walkable but not suitable for the Slow Ways network because it doesn't fit the criteria’. I'm sure it'll all get worked out :)

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  • Cristie Moore

    Thanks Daisy.  Yes, I'm sure it will all get worked and we appreciate the input.  I'll share your ideas with the team.  If a route isn't suitable then it probably still needs a flag.  It's that space between isn't it where the route is walkable, safe, no access issues and is well plotted and so doesn't need a flag.  Yet the experience is maybe less than nice.

    Best wishes,
    Cristie

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  • Hugh Hudson

    I can only speak from personal experience, but I am reluctant to flag routes if I can't see a better alternative that avoids the problem area without finding anything worse. It is pretty rare for rural routes to meet all of the listed criteria/aspirations, and there is always a balance to be found. I wouldn't normally go below 3 stars on a route I think is acceptable, but I may have done in my early days. 


    I suspect that some flags may have been lost during the period last year when editing a review caused it to lose any untouched flag settings (this bug has now been fixed but I am not sure everything I meant to flag is still flagged).

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  • Yorkie Christine

    That's a useful post Hugh.  Flagging routes where there is no clear alternative is a tricky dilemma.  I came across one during my walk this morning: I didn't even get half way along the route (Haxsta one) before I'd identifed three separate safety issues, each one by itself being enough for me to flag it for safety.   There is an easy alternative for the first issue (busy fast road crossing) but not for the second (road walking with no path or verge) or the third (even busier road crossing).  In fact I abandoned the walk at the third point because I couldn't get across the road.  

    Yet looking at the map I can't see another obvious route to propose without risking similar difficulties elsewhere or going a long way round (in this case nearly into York and out again).  

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  • Yorkie Christine

    Update: I've now identified a longer but safer route and will have a go at walking, uploading and reviewing it!  

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